P.E.D. Conversation on Twitter
Fri, Aug 06, 2010 - 9:49pm
I think this was the start of the twitter banter from @pulpmx
When Lance gets proven that he doped (they're all dopers imo), color me not surprised at all. It's only a matter of time...
@ShenziRubani One would have to be really, really naive to think the top mxer's didn't dope with zero testing and all that $ at stake.
@jhn145 chimes in..
@pulpmx my bet is HGH & Testosterone for mx'rs, HGH for injury recovery, I doubt EPO though
@pulpmx ? would it diminish what a certain goat accomplished if it was revealed after the fact that what he accomplished was perf. enhanced
I know that they just started "testing" for PED in mx and there has been prior discussion do riders use them or don't they. I personally know someone that was given HGH for injury recovery, so I am assuming that still goes on especially with some of the amazing recovery times we have seen lately and also considering the amount of money that is in the sport. I am not convinced that anyone is using EPO (this takes a lot of $$ to get on an EPO "medical" program), but blood transfusions, maybe? How do you put the hammer down and ruin everyone else for two moto's straight when everyone is dragging ass, hmm suspect. Any thoughts or is this topic played out.
Sat, Aug 07, 2010 - 4:31pm
#2
EPO, Erythropoietin is not for asthma. It is a drug composed from a mammalian cell line of the chinese hamster ovary that helps the body produce red blood cells and also thickens the blood requiring blood thinning after overuse. Very expensive..1500-2000k per injection, lots of maintenance and hard/expensive to test for.
Ephedrine has other side affects that would not be conducive to a outdoor moto in 100 degree weather.
RC is a champion and one of the most ethical person I have met. Dungey is appropriately capitalizing on the group of contenders that are left in the outdoor season. I have a feeling next year will be a different dance and the runaway will be history.
Call me naive but I do not see the PED connection with these two riders
Sun, Aug 08, 2010 - 4:35pm
#3
RC is a great champion and it's not the goal of the post to challenge whether he is ethical or not, even if he hypothetically had some sort of medical program, what he hypothetically would be participating in wouldn't be wrong/ illegal because at the time of his championships the didn't test for PED's nor were they illegal in AMA racing. But the question was if you did find out the he did use some questionable substances(i.e. performance substances that are illegal in cycling, football, track & field, baseball etc.), Would it dimmish what he did in the sport? Ultimately it's a philosophical question that really has no merit, other than to discuss do they or don't they exist in motocross and ultimately do moto fans really care. Because lets face it racers do recreational drugs for fun and I don't think fans really care. We still love the Doggers, the J-Laws, the Fro-daddy's etc. so a little something to make you a better athlete, maybe who cares is the answer, as Matthes pointed out it's not like bikes, time practice or anything else in the industry favors the privateer over the factory rider.
Sun, Aug 08, 2010 - 7:11pm
#4
JimmyD, you sound like you know a hell of a lot more than me on this subject and thanks for coming on and educating us.
That being said, when you say that you don't see the PED connection with RC, I would say that anyone who has seen his body transform so dramatically in one year ('99 to '00) and who was an absolute beast on the track and now, only a few years retired he's back to his '97 body, would have to admit that a connection to PED's, just the connection, is there right?
Or no?
Mon, Aug 09, 2010 - 6:08pm
#5
I don't think it is a fair assumption that RC was using PEDs when he went through his transformation from '99 to '00. I know from experience that anyone with a dedication and some will-power can make huge improvements in their body and level of fitness without pharmaceutical help (and without a trainer)...and with the resources and incentives he had, what he accomplished was totally realistic au naturale. Same goes with Dungey, Short, etc., etc.
That is my opinion, but you traveled/traveled in the inner circle of pro MX, so you have a better idea of what went on and still goes on behind the scenes though.
Tue, Aug 10, 2010 - 10:03pm
#6
You were allot closer to the action than I could be so you probably saw the physical changes better than me. Today his body definitely resembles a veteran nascar driver. I thought it might be B's & G' (Biscuits and Gravy) and good livin. Remember the good ol days of creatine??
Maybe?
Mon, Aug 09, 2010 - 7:42am
#7
WOW bro. You need to find yourself a decent search engine.
"With regards to the EPO surely they just claim to have asthma? Ephidrine is present in asthma medication"
This was a post that is worthy of vital.com............Good job man, you should be proud
Tue, Aug 10, 2010 - 2:37pm
#8
Proud that I brought you out the woodwork? Not really.
Sat, Aug 07, 2010 - 11:56am
#9
It's a subject that not many in the sport want to discuss or talk about. There are plenty of rumors out there about guys but hard to tell if they're substantive or just jealously on other riders who get beat.
I asked Trey Canard on a podcast one time what bugged him and he said all the PED's in our sport, I asked Johnny O about what Canard said and he said it's too expensive, people don't know how to use them and they're not a factor in our sport.
I would think the truth is somewhere in the middle. With no AMA testing whatsoever until the FIM started testing just during sx a few years ago, why wouldn't someone just juice up (HGH, EPO, steroids, etc) after all, there's so much money to be earned and zero risk if you have someone who knows what they're doing.
And you know who knows what they're doing? Anyone from the cycling world. And our sport is full of those.
As I said on Twitter, one would have to be really, really naive to think that they weren't used in the sport back when there was zero testing and there's still a pretty good chance they're used now. People and riders certainly look at RC as example 1A as someone that used and they would help him greatly in the recovery time from his gnarly training schedule and help him on the weekends. And you can't deny his body/face changed dramatically from his rookie years.
Of course without any shred of evidence, and I mean shred, it's pretty shitty for some journo to write a story suggesting anyone is using. And I don't think you'll ever get anyone writing anything like that anytime soon.
I just heard a few weeks ago that "Dungey has to be on something...." and I suppose that we'll always hear it when someone dominates like he's doing. Until there's a solid testing program (and that's a long ways off because the AMA right now can barely check bore and stroke. On another note, a few years back it had been over two yearssince the AMA had done anything to any motorcycle other than a drain the gas and weigh...isn't that uneffing-believable?) it's all speculation and heresay.
I get this question a lot in emails and at the races, bullshit sessions whatever and it's weird to me that people care so much. The public is definitely curious about the PED's in our sport subject for some reason.
Sun, Aug 08, 2010 - 6:45pm
#10
I am totally inline with what Steve said. I think one would have to be naive to think these are not in use and have not been in use for about a decade. Until there is testing it is not possible to really approach the issue but the fact that there is absolutely no will and no support to institute testing is not a good indication neither.
Sun, Aug 08, 2010 - 10:09pm
#11
jimmyD, what do you mean about the side effects not conducive for a moto in 100 degre weather. What about the TDF riders on a full day of ride, at 110% under 100 degree weather?
Mon, Aug 09, 2010 - 7:38am
#12
Shenzi,
I think Jimmy's comment of "side effects not conducive for a moto in 100 degre weather" was in reference to Ephedrine not EPO.
Mon, Aug 09, 2010 - 1:19pm
#13
OK, I understand.
Tue, Aug 10, 2010 - 9:39pm
#14
Ringer is correct..Just my personal experience but I have tried to enhance my cycling and moto capabilities experimenting with ephedrine and it sucked for me. EPO works well pretty much for the whole body with exception to the blood thickening and some loose bowel stuff. Never took it just made it and NESP (Super EPO) in our facility.
With regards to the EPO surely they just claim to have asthma? Ephidrine is present in asthma medication.
Everyones body is different so I can easily believe in some conditions/tracks we can see a rider own everyone with no additional chemical assistance.
Would you cut a corner of the track if it was not against the rules in order to win? Everyone else would.
As for RC using...the point is moot. You cant go back to 2005 and test him for a specific something. There will be no way of ever knowing if he was on something. All Time is for ever and not the length of a message board post.