Where was the racing the best this year in 250cc SX?
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 12:58pm
Answer me this, guys.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 2:13pm
#2
It's a straight question. As the tracks got easier, the racing got better.
Period.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 2:40pm
#3
To me the difference is seen not in the top 3, but in 4th -6th. Fonseca was 6th and was only 20.2 seconds back. When is the last time we've seen 6th place that close to the front?
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 2:47pm
#4
good point thumpa... good point. But on that short of a track it was half a lap back...
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 2:50pm
#5
At A1, at the halfway point, there were 11 riders on the lead lap.
At A2, at the END OF THE RACE, there were 11 riders on the lead lap.
Last I checked, the whole race at A2 took longer than the first half of the race at A1.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:04pm
#6
Well Nerd, you are right, It is a catch 22 though. If we get rid of all the obstacles so everybody stays on the same lap... I think that is called TT racing. I want the rider with the best skills to win (to a degree) I don't want t atrack like "Hell Track" back on the movie "RAD" though
Not the way I want to see better racing.
It is a stright up question, but it is a give and take I guess. I see your point and a lot of people see it too. If you want to find a way to make 5-10th more competetive, then yes, this is the answer. But you will continue to see guys like Reed, and Bubba and even RC dissapointed when they don't get to the front on the first lap, and we the fans mayy be robbed of some good racing if those three get seperated in the beginning. Catch 22 to me.. I don;t want to see the race determined on the start. Reed was never a factor last Saturday, and his start wasn't horrible.
The AMA (SW) in the interview you attended, stated that if the mains were less then 20 minutes they may add laps. Well that will only make the amount of people on the lead lap the same as it used to be, or close to it. we had 11 people on the lead lap saturday, but it was a lot shorter (time wise) of a race. add 5 laps and we may very well be right where we were at A1...
I will agree that this will make 4th - 10th more competative, but I am not sure I agree with making tracks easier to do that. That is just the racer in me.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:08pm
#7
regis188 wrote:
Well Nerd, you are right, so let's get rid of all the obstacles so everybody stays on the same lap... I think that is called TT racing. I want the rider with the best skills to win (to a degree) I don't want t atrack like "Hell Track" back on the movie "RAD" thoughNot the way I want to see better racing.
It is a stright up question, but it is a give and take I guess. I see your point and a lot of people see it too. If you want to find a way to make 5-10th more competetive, then yes, this is the answer. But you will continue to see guys like Reed, and Bubba and even RC dissapointed when they don't get tot he front on the first lap, and we the fans mayy be robbed of some good racing if those three get seperated in the beginning. Catch 22 to me..
The AMA (SW) in the interview you did stated that if the mains were less then 20 minutes they may add laps. Well that will only make the amount of people on the lead lap the same as it used to be, we had 11 people on the lead lap saturday, but it was a 15 (or just over) minute race ad 5 laps and we may very well be right where we were at A1
First off, your math is wrong. There were 11 on the lead lap at the HALFWAY point at Anaheim I.
At the 15-lap mark (15 minutes into the race) there were 6 people on the lead lap at Anaheim I.
Six, compared to 11 at the 15-minute mark at Anaheim II.
And last I checked, there were two triples, two rhythm sections (one long, one short, two sets of whoops, and more at Anaheim II. And the people were on their feet the entire race.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:18pm
#8
Quote:
First off, your math is wrong. There were 11 on the lead lap at the HALFWAY point at Anaheim I.
I understood this.
Quote:
At the 15-lap mark (15 minutes into the race) there were 6 people on the lead lap at Anaheim I.
I understand this
Quote:
Six, compared to 11 at the 15-minute mark at Anaheim II.
I understand this as well.
Now what I am saying is this. You made the race shorter (time wise) yes your going to have less lappers at the end.
Quote:
And last I checked, there were two triples, two rhythm sections (one long, one short, two sets of whoops, and more at Anaheim II. And the people were on their feet the entire race.
the people were on their feet because of RC and Bubba, they were at A1 too.
The track was easier and all the obstacles were being done the same. It is a fact that when a track is lest technical it is harder seperate the riders. James Stewart was frustrated for this point, so was Reed. If the tracks are going to remain this easy then I am going to get the pressure washer out and clean my boots off. I may have a chance at making some mains. All I need is a start and 6 laps (5 Minutes) and I am in. 
j/k about coming back.
just my thoughts, but you know what? I could be wrong! Hopefully I am and we will see great racing all year long. I can;t wait to see how it pans out...
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:23pm
#9
regis188 wrote:
Quote:First off, your math is wrong. There were 11 on the lead lap at the HALFWAY point at Anaheim I.I understood this.
Quote:At the 15-lap mark (15 minutes into the race) there were 6 people on the lead lap at Anaheim I.I understand this
Quote:Six, compared to 11 at the 15-minute mark at Anaheim II.I understand this as well.
Now what I am saying is this. you make the shorter race (A2) as long as the A1 race and we have "about" the same amount of lappers at the end of the race.
No, we wouldn't! At the 15 MINUTE POINT of A2, there were 11 people on the lead lap. At the 15 MINUTE POINT of A1, there were 6!
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:32pm
#10
the total time (20 laps) of the race at A1 was 19.29 at A2 it was 15.22
when you take 4 minutes and 7 seconds out of a race you are going to have less lappers. With lap time at 46 seconds you could have add another 6 laps.
In 6 more laps how many more lappers would RC have had to deal with and lapped? about the same as A1 when it was all said and done. How many total people got lapped at A1? do you think if A2 was the same length in time RC would have been close to that same number? A whole 6 more laps....
Yeah, you are making 5-10th more competative by not letting the top guys have the time to get to them....
Make the races on the A1 track 10 lap mains and you won't have as many lappers either and 5-10 will be closer too. It is the same either way. But the more technical tracks reward the better and faster riders.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:35pm
#11
regis188 wrote:
the total time (20 laps) of the race at A1 was 19.29 at A2 it was 15.22when you take 4 minutes and 7 seconds out of a race you are going to have less lappers. With lap time at 46 seconds you could have add another 6 laps.
In 6 more laps how many more lappers would RC have had to deal with and lapped? about the same as A1 when it was all said and done.
How? I showed you that the lapping rate BY THE MINUTE was much higher at Anaheim I. What make you think that, all of a sudden, in the last five minutes, the Anaheim II guys would've gotten lapped at a much higher rate?
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:43pm
#12
Nerdy, Nerdy, Nerdy.
At A1 there was a total of 6 riders on the same lap when it was all over and done.
At A2 there was a total of 11 riders on the same lap when it was all said and done..
At A2 RC and Bubba were shorted about 6 laps worth of time because of the easier track and faster times. If you added the 6 laps to make the time of the race the same as it was at A1- by looking at the times I am willing to bet that Mike Laracco in 7th place (who was about 10 seconds ahead of RC at the checkers) would have been lapped. leaving, you guessed it! 6 riders on the same lap when it was all said and done.
Your saying that the riders would not have been lapped as fast, but I am saying they still would have been lapped had the length of the race been the equall.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:47pm
#13
regis188 wrote:
Nerdy, Nerdy, Nerdy.At A1 there was a total of 6 riders on the same lap when it was all over and done.
At A2 there was a total of 11 riders on the same lap when it was all said and done..
At A2 RC and Bubba were shorted about 6 laps worth of time because of the easier track and faster times. If you added the 6 laps to make the time of the race the same as it was at A1- by looking at the times I am willing to bet that Mike Laracco in 7th place would have been lapped. leaving, you guessed it 6 riders on the same lap when it was all said and done.
Your saying that the riders would not have been lapped as fast, but I am saying they still would have been lapped had the length of the race been the equall.
THE LENGTH OF ANAHEIM I AT 15 LAPS IS THE SAME AS THE LENGTH OF THE ENTIRE ANAHEIM II!
DON'T YOU GET IT? RIGHT THERE, THEY ARE EQUAL, AND THERE ARE 11 PEOPLE ON THE LEAD LAP IN ONE, AND 6 IN THE OTHER!
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:55pm
#14
I get what you are saying... absolutely.
So like I said, you are saying that the lappers will not happen as fast. Iam saying that given the opportunity to be on the track for the same amount of time the amount of lappers would have been the same!
At 15 minutes in A1 there were 6 people on the lead lap. but at the end the same 6 were still on the lead lap. If RC or Bubba been on the track the same amount of time at A2 as A1 the same amount of lappers there would have been!
So we made the race shorter and got more people on the same lap... Is that what we want?
You got your tail yet? Cause I caught mine!! 
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 3:58pm
#15
Hey maybe SF will be the best racing yet? I hope to see an all out drag em out chicken fight and some clean one two wheel racing! I hope so, cant wait to watch it!
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 4:08pm
#16
regis188 wrote:
I get what you are saying... absolutely.So like I said, you are saying that the lappers will not happen as fast. Iam saying that given the opportunity to be on the track for the same amount of time the amount of lappers would have been the same!
You obviously DON'T get what I'm saying.
15 minutes per race. In ONE race, they had 6 riders on the lead lap after 15 minutes. In the OTHER race, they had 11 riders on the lead lap after 15 minutes.
In other words, the SAME TIME, but vastly DIFFERENT results as far as lappers were concerned.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 4:17pm
#17
I get it!
You aren' getting what I am saying! open up for one second.
OK in 15 minutes you may have had less lappers but in 19 you would have the same... that is all.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 4:19pm
#18
regis188 wrote:
I get it!You aren' getting what I am saying! open up for one second.
OK in 15 minutes you may have had less lappers but in 19 you would have the same... that is all.
That makes no sense.
So, you think, if the race were 25 laps, all of a sudden they would've lapped a ton more riders?
What is your evidence of this? All the math says you're wrong.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 4:43pm
#19
Regis,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the technical tracks separate the riders' abilities. Unfortunately that insures the same finishing order at every SX, unless a mistake is made. That's not racing to me, it's more like a freestyle contest, where the most technical rider is supposed to win.
OK, Reg, you're really not gonna like this next one!! Make the "Supercross" class ride bikes that are closer to production bikes, like the "Lites" class. MAKE THE TRACKS EASIER! In turn, with all the money saved in suspension mods, the factories could pay more to their riders, or have larger teams. It's quite simple; for better racing, level the playing field...just like the "Lites". The same three will always be in contention for the wins, but it'll come down to the last lap more often than not.
Thu, Jan 26, 2006 - 5:40pm
#20
MXWordNerd wrote:
regis188 wrote:I get it!You aren' getting what I am saying! open up for one second.
OK in 15 minutes you may have had less lappers but in 19 you would have the same... that is all.
That makes no sense.
So, you think, if the race were 25 laps, all of a sudden they would've lapped a ton more riders?
What is your evidence of this? All the math says you're wrong.
Finally we are getting somewhere!!!
lol
Yes if the main Saturday was 26 laps long, or 19 and a half minutes long like it was at A1, I am saying that 7th place, Mike Larocco could have got lapped based on where he was on the track at the end of 20 laps or 15 minutes and some change. RC could have lapped 5 more riders in 6 more laps. Look at the times, based on a 45 second lap time by the leaders they could have caught Mike Larocco who was just under 10 seconds ahead of RC to be lapped.
At the end of 20 laps or 15 minutes, RC crossed the line. right in front of him was - (based on a 45 second lap time)
11th Travis Preston .5 seconds would have lapped him on lap 21
10th Nick Wey 1.3 seconds he would have had to go .2 seconds a lap faster
9th Vuillemin 7 seconds He would have had to go 1.2 seconds a lap faster
8th Byrne 9 seconds he would have had to go 1.5 seconds a lap faster
7th Laracco 10 seconds- he would have needed to go 1.6 seconds a lap faster
IN 6 laps I think RC could have, if he had kept the same pace, put nearly the same amount of riders down a lap as Bubba did at A1 if the race were as long.
Whew!
ALTHOUGH- it would have been close and came down to last lap,not like A1 where on lap 15 the lappers stopped as you have stated.
All this may not be worth anything as I am specualting if laps are added. the way it stands is the race was shorter and less people got lapped. bottom line.
Fri, Jan 27, 2006 - 12:15am
#21
I wasn't at the race and could only watch what the director chose to show, but as an active amature racer I was able to relate to the A2 track much better. As for actually being at the race, and able to watch whatever I want, when there is a true race for the lead all eyes will be there, but when someone is running away up front, I will watch the next good race for position, weather that is a 2 way battle for third or a 4 way battle for 8th, and if a tamer track truly promotes better racing through out the field, I,m for it.
Fri, Jan 27, 2006 - 12:51am
#22
ok, I am confused...but about the racing. I thought that A1 was better than A2 because of the greater technical difficulty of track (and because I was at A1, not A2!). Watching A2 on CBS, even though it was a close race with RC and Bubba battling the whole time, I felt that they were just chasing each other around the whole time and taking the same lines since there really wasn't much of a choice. On the other hand, at A1, the racing was not as close but there was some great sections that made up for it like Bubba doing the triple-triple-triple clean and then Reed getting thru it but a little sketchy. Anyhoo, those are my thoughts...
Fri, Jan 27, 2006 - 12:53am
#23
And Just think, The San Francisco stadium floor is smaller than Anahiem and the lap times there each year, I believe were in the 40s. If the track is fast come saturday, the main will be over in 13 minutes or so.???????
Trick Question!!!
HAHA.
Just because the tracks have changed, does not mean the racing is better becasue of that. The riders are making the racing better, we have Bubba RC and Reed, all on equal equipment and healthy,that is making the racing better... We could very well have had the same races, (as we were set to see at A1) with the more technical tracks. We wouldhave seen a great race in Phoenix had Bubba not crashed on the start. I will vote for A3, becasue that has been the best race this year. It was because of RC and Bubba, not the track. Maybe with a more technical track we could have had Reed catch up and get in the mix. But he had no chance on the freeway to make up time, in 15 minutes and a start outside the top 5 did him in from the 2nd turn!! He was set for third as soon as he got into third, barring a crash.
To me a great race needs a track that is technical and gives you options that can either make time or lose time. Not two people going the same speed (mach 2) the whole time following each other.
1986 was a great race at Anaheim. How many times did RJ double over Bailey in a tricky section (or vice versa) They didn't follow each other for 18 laps doing the obstacles the exact same and going the exact same speed, hoping one would crash or mess up. If the tracks are going to be like this then old school obstacles and real works bikes need to be added that can seperate people... Bring back RJ's "Rad n' Bad" and the coca cola catapult damnit!! lol.